Revenge of the dailies ^Featured

Written by Eric Maziade Sunday, 18 April 2010

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Painting walls, hauling furniture and chatting with ChattyDM for the better part of a day can yield some interesting discussions.

While I've been planting the seeds of a return to DnD within my old gaming group, my DM (let's call him Steve, because that's his name) is considering selling his collection of 4th ed books, having moved over to Pathfinder. Seems like none of his other gaming groups liked 4th ed.

ChattyDM was wondering what his other players didn't like about 4th ed. While I didn't really press the matter with Steve, it got ChattyDM to tell me *gasp* one thing that... let's say itches him from 4th ed.

Daily powers.

Not hitting with a daily power is frustrating.
Using a daily power makes the players want to take an extended rest instead of a short rest. Always.

Not hitting with a daily power is frustrating Alot

Yes. While some dailies have a miss effect, some don't and missing becomes an even more frustrating event.

I've play-tested this house rule in the game I played yesterday night in my head and it worked perfectly:

A missed daily that has no "miss" effect is automatically regenerated after a short rest.

Using a daily power makes PCs want to take extended rests.

I know of this - this is why I collect scroll and potions and never use them. In computer RPGs, I hoard them and use them just in the fight with the final boss.

At the end of Dragon Age, my bard chugged down so many potions, it had to ask the dragon to wait while she went peeing.

Scarcity of resources make them more valuable - I tend not to use them, in case a better opportunity to use them present itself.

I do have a clever house rule here... but first, I need to say that most of the times, players can take an extended rest after a fight. I take an extended rest after every day at work. I don't have a problem with players always taking extended rests.

I love the idea of creating situations where it is not a good idea to take an extended rest - it enhances the stress of using dailies (or of extended resting).

Back to the clever house rule. If you can, remember your first level wizard in 2nd ed, when it missed its only spell and was scared of taking out its sling in case a monster would notice him, spit on his face from a distance, removing the last of his 1d4 worth of HP?

My house rule builds on the same mechanisms we used back then to deal with it:

Suck it up

What are your feelings on 4th ed and dailies?

Original Alot, from Hyperbole and a Half, which you should be reading.
Red Dragon from Dungeon and Dragon's 3rd Edition Player's handbook. Wuss adventurer added on it by an artist I don't know.

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36 comments

Comment Link Monday, 19 April 2010 posted by Frylock
@Eric: And don't forget the Artificer! Recharges your item dailies!

I definitely feel for you when you say that players don't use their dailies enough. I'm guilty of it myself as well unless I make a conscious effort to use them. However, it just feels to me like your suggestions come from wanting your cake and eating it too.

If you can't handle the risk of dailies, you shouldn't get the reward. Either have dailies that (almost always) are available daily, or don't.

That being said, it's a game, and a game should be fun. One of my DM philosophies well-known among the Gamers' Syndicate is that if you want to cheat, I won't stop you. If you actually are capable of having fun rolling critical hits every single time, then have your fun. The most impressive feat of game design for 4e is that it insulates non-powergamers from powergameres, and cheaters are essentially just super-effective (and lazy) powergamers (min/maxers, whatever). What you (and others) have suggested certainly doesn't rise to this level, so I could accept that as well, even if I'm a player on your table and didn't give myself that benefit.

I'm not the slightest bit frustrated by the mechanics of 4e but hold nothing against those that are.
Comment Link Monday, 19 April 2010 posted by Eric Maziade
@Prolix Wag:
In complete agreement.

(still liking the house rule :P)
Comment Link Monday, 19 April 2010 posted by Eric Maziade
@Frylock:
Yeah - the Warlord! This is the class that has the daily recharge power that is so awesome!

The house rule, as it stands (even in its rewrite in the comments), aims not to overpower or step over its bounds : if you miss your daily, you miss it.

Regaining it after a short rest instead of an extended rest - only if it missed in the first place - is meant more as a soothing bounds. Makes dailies more powerful, yes, but encourages their use.

I think the end result will be subtle, as most encounters give time enough for an extended rest if needed anyways.

In the few games we played (always low-level), I remember only a handful of times dailies have been used. I want us to use them more.

(How many dailies fit in a hand anyway?)
Comment Link Monday, 19 April 2010 posted by Prolix Wag
The fact that missing with a daily is full of suck, and hitting is full of win, does two things: 1) it creates dramatic tension whenever you're rolling for one, and 2) it encourages strategic thinking and teamwork to stack up those to-hit bonuses. Making a daily less daily makes them less special.

-- Cameron McNary, Artistic Director, Critical Threat Theatre
Comment Link Monday, 19 April 2010 posted by Frylock
Some follow up: My suggestion was intended to be respectful of the class structure. Allowing easy recharges removes the benefit of the reliable keyword that makes Fighters special. Allowing recharges upon the use of action points (below paragon level at least) removes the benefit that makes Warlords special. Also, making a daily like an encounter (or even at-will) while not reducing their strength will have everyone just using dailies constantly. You might as well start your campaign on day 1 by making the players 30th level and congratulating them on a wonderful career of adventuring. :) I'm not sure what I've read from others would balance at all within the current structure of 4e, but then again, I've never (really) played beyond the heroic tier, so what do I know? :)
Comment Link Monday, 19 April 2010 posted by Eric Maziade
@Frylock
Its an interesting concept, but it would remove the "awesome" that the dailies have... which makes them so annoying to "lose" in the first place.

I think the house rule fits very well with low-level PC or less experienced (better yet - less 'crunchy') players.

@Greywulf:
If I remember well, there are some higher-level (paragon or epic) powers that do just that.
Comment Link Monday, 19 April 2010 posted by greywulf
@Eric Maybe it thinks I'm an evil spammer because I included a link in the comment. Bad, bad me.

Another thing I've considered (but it's yet not come into play) is to allow a missed Daily or Encounter Power to recharge if the player spends an Action Point. This replaces them using it to gain an extra action. The way if the PC really needs to use that big Daily he can keep an Action Point in reserve just in case he needs a second try. I'm all for new uses for Action Points!
Comment Link Monday, 19 April 2010 posted by Frylock
As far as I'm concerned, it's much ado about nothing, but reasonable minds disagree, so here's a suggestion: Allow your players to propose an encounter power version of their daily power and take that instead. The change should usually be easy. Reduce 3W damage to 2W damage. Change "until the end of the encounter" to "until the end of your next turn." No more miss effects. No reliable keyword. It's not always going to be that formulaic, but it should be easy with a little thought.
Comment Link Monday, 19 April 2010 posted by Eric Maziade
@ZorkFox:
Yeah, ZorkFox, this house rule is for you! :P
Comment Link Monday, 19 April 2010 posted by Eric Maziade
@Greywulf:
(Your comment was detected as spam? What did you do?)

RE: what you wrote : that makes a ton-and-a-half of sense.

@Milambus:
What you say goes in the same vein as @Greywulf's comment : if you're going to use a daily, you and your group should do all it can to help make it happen.

Which makes it all the more frustrating when it misses... in which case, you still can apply rule #2: "suck it up".

I still like how simple and friendly the rechargeable daily idea feels.